I had enough paint / pouring medium mixed for two paintings. If you are adding it to paints to create cells, then it’s hard to know how much to use until you make some mixes and test, because every color and type of paint will respond differently. Mix the water with the paint thoroughly with a clean stick to stir it. Here’s a sample recipe to try, courtesy of Danny Clark’s awesome YouTube channel: Floetrol (2 parts) It’s a paint additive … Just sayin. Improves flow to reduce brush and roller marks. You won’t have to worry about colors separating or the finished piece drying to look different than the fresh, wet pour. Or should I throw the mixture out? What is a paint chip card? I like the panel better than the canvas because of the paint slipping off the sides. Some have been mixed up in there for months. It turned out great. When added to paint, may increase dry time. Is there a specific recipe that helps this from happening. So I called Flood Co. and was told all flood floetrol is the same. -Jan. For the Floetrol, the product number is FLD6 – take a look here on Amazon. Those don’t make cells by themselves. Plus, you will be getting a better-looking surface when painted with a … Thank you for your kind comment. ( semi gloss, gloss etc. It makes latex paints, primers, stains, and textured coatings flow more smoothly. Step-by-Step Guide 1. Thank you, Senior citizen new to pour painting, disliked art in HS, could not draw a straight line,failed the course. For those who aren’t familiar with paints and additives, a medium is something you add to your acrylic paints to make them easier to work with and to make them behave the way you want them to in your applications. The paint was the same so the only difference was there must have been some sort of oil or coating on those two sides than stopped the paint from sticking. Bought some new canvas that are triple primed. Also I am not sure if floetrol its a kind of glue or oil. I think another important key for getting a smooth finish is to use quality brushes. High humidity or temperatures below 50°F | 10°C may prolong drying and recoating times. You can eyeball your ratios, but I prefer to use a scale and measure everything out so the paint mix is consistent. I had created a 12 x 12 bag pull which I was pleased with as my first attempt but hardly any cells so I went back to watching dozens of pours balloons bags drags etc and that has instilled so much more confidence plus I have armed myself better by knowing how to mix what ratio etc and best of what to use.So this weekend back to my studio…loft space albeit large for my new set up.Fingers crossed it will look more professional this time.I remember going for an art lesson many years ago and saw people around me scared to put brush to canvas.Luckily I am past that stage but for anyone who has a similar feeling just go for it as what damage can you do? Stir the mixture thoroughly 3. I love all the helpful info you provide, Thank you so much. The second pour is using one of my recipes that I use a lot. It gives the impression of a frame. I think Danny Clark discussed this on his video and said to get the latex one???? If you eventually try some other mediums and find that one works better for you than Floetrol, that’s perfectly fine. I don’t personally recommend using the canvas panels with pouring because of the likelihood that they will warp under the dampness of the acrylic paint as it dries. If so what brand and what finish? It’s used in the mix and helps get a longer life span from these covers, giving the whole product a longer life span. Thanks! Si compra nuestro libro electrónico, le enviaré la versión en español. Your email address will not be published. I have tried various recipes: 2 part floetrol, 1 part paint,1 part glue. I would like to ask since the canvas has to have a lot of white paint 1st before all the colors are added, can interior house acrylic paint be used? Go to Home Depot or Lowes and get the person to cut thin wallboard to size. I like a couple of products. When you thin with water, you make paints runnier and easier to work with. Little better quality. Usually, the medium makes paint behave as if it’s been thinned, without you thinning it. Did none of those options appeal to you? Then flip both cups and see what happens. Hi Debbie, I have found that mixing Floetrol with metallic paints makes the paint extremely thick, so am adding a lot of water just to get a honey consistency. Floetrol by Flood is not technically an acrylic pouring medium. Hello, I am new to pour painting. However, by adding the water, you sacrifice the integrity of the paint so that the color is lessened and the acrylics lose their hold on your canvas. Do these help in the creating different effects on cells? I found that if you use 2 coats of primer even on “preprimed” canvas it works way better and doesn’t look weird like that, what kind of primer would I use I don’t like the look if any of the many canvases I have purchased so wopuld like to cxover’. Very cheap and holds up well. What Is GAC 800? Again I did not have this issue with the very first one I did. I am just concerned about longevity and will it crack. http://acrylicpouring.com/best-protective-finishes-for-sealing/, http://acrylicpouring.com/comparing-different-finishes-ceramic-tiles/, Supplies to Get Started With Acrylic Pouring, The Complete Acrylic Pouring Techniques Guide, 40 Essential Tips for Acrylic Pouring Beginners, Ultimate Guide for Using Silicone to Create Beautiful Cells. Ideal Uses for Floetrol Exterior painting in hot, cold or windy weather Using a paint spray gun – Floetrol helps to extend it’s life by reducing wear and tear Helping paint to flow with no brush and roller marks The above video, he used ten drops in two colors and five drops in the other two. I’m ordering this right now, along with the Elmer’s Glue-All, so I will at least have the same products. Acrylic paint (1 part). Add approximately 7-10% per litre of paint. The best ratio of Floetrol to acrylic paint will largely come down to experimentation and personal preferences. Floetrol is a latex paint additive, made by Flood, a wood finish company, to improve the flow and leveling of water-based paints. Below I have a list of the products I used as well as the recipes I used to create them. The more Floetrol you add to the mixture (glaze) the more open time you will have and the more translucent the finish will be. Add 5-10% per litre of paint. Thanks, Hai can anyone guide me the pour recipe by using decoart paints which are in the small containers. I did my first acrylic pour with floetrol on a cheap Walmart canvas that I had started a scenery painting that I didn’t like. We like Floetrol because it does everything well! If so, how long can you save them? But it can be interesting to experiment and give it a try. Thank you, In fact, its excellent aging integrity is a big difference between Floetrol and some other additives. That would be a pretty dramatic difference. When you start using Floetrol, you can try a few variations and see what feels best to you. It doesn’t change the color or finish characteristics. That increases the staining properties of your materials, and it also slows down drying. Just enjoy the moment.xxx, Hello, I’m really excited to produce better pours now that I’ve gotten better educated by watching this video!! Even paint can cause irritation, skin problems and breathing problems for some people. You can get those large cells more easily, even without an additional additive like silicone. A quick shake and they are good to use again. 1 Quart Flood Floetrol Additive, Pixiss Acrylic Pouring Oil for Creating Cells Perfect Flow 100% Pure High Grade Silicone - 100ml/3.3-Ounce, 3X Pipettes. It also has some additional tips you may find helpful. You can use Glue All school glue. I feel as though someone just slipped me a Mickey Mouse Super Secret Decoder Ring!!! Use in interior or exterior latex or water-based paints and primers. I have a couple of useful tables for you. As you become more experienced and start to tweak your formulas, you may find that you want to add something else to the mix. I suggest investing in treadmill lubricant instead. Of course, it won’t be able to help you if you use too much paint in the first place! Using an empty container or dispensable cup as a measuring device, mix 3 volumes of latex (acrylic) paint to 1 volume of Floetrol. Do you have any tips or recommendations for me or should I just move on to another paint brand? There is barely any cells if any when I pour. It can work in a pinch, but its slightly yellowing and does have other chemical ingredients. Use only with water-borne and latex paints: Acrylics, Enamels, Sealers, and Primers. I use floetrol and Elmer’s glue along with silicone and dimethocone. The recipe used was simply Floetrol, Paint, and alcohol. Confused about which flood floetrol to get they all have same numbers and added different at the end. This first one is possible pouring mediums, and this second one is for additives to make cells. But yours worked like a charm. ¡Ahora tenemos nuestro ebook en español! I tend to add between 10 and 25% of the total volume of liquid paint but I know that other people add more than this so it is worth experimenting with … can I use the silicon seal that is used for stone tiles? Any idea how it would call here or what I could use instead. Also, Liquitex is a lot harder to clean off of your hands after a pour, while Floetrol is very easy. Makes latex paints, primers, stains and textured coatings flow more smoothly. Which type of Floetrol and which type of Elmer’s glue do you use in your pours? That’s quite a range, but we provide it as a general guideline since your ratios will vary slightly with each pour and each paint mixture. When added to paint, the dry time may increase. Thank you! Hi Barb, no that is not the same thing at all. If you use the Liquitex basics or even another brand like this Hobby Lobby one, you may find the paint to be a bit thick even after mixing with the floetrol. Add in 2-4 drops of liquid silicone 4. “Respirators” offer protection against harmful chemicals, vapors and mold spores. What kind of panels do you use?? Thank you Deb……I love the exciting unknown aspect of pouring…..eact one is different……can’t wait to begin…..have a wonderful Christmas and a Happy New Year…….????? It almost look like I poured extremely watered down paint on the sides. The treadmill belt lubricant is a firm favorite with most painters, but you can use any of the oil based products we have in the store here. To keep from ruining my background with smudges etc, or corrections, I used Krylong clear matte finish to spray the canvas after painting background, colored speckled or whatever, then it would repel water and it makes for easy clean up, my paint always stuck to it, and it drys really fast, of course that is the regular krylon and not meant for outdoors as it will cloud over. It also improves flow to reduce brush and roller marks. Floetrol, pouring medium and GAC800 would all be used to thin the paints without weakening them by adding too much water. 1 part floetrol, 1 part paint, 1 part water. All Rights Reserved. You must have an issue with your reply set up, atleast on this page. Still, we think Floetrol is the best all-around medium on the market. added this twice, forgot to add notify me on the bottom and submitted it. FLOETROL. For oil-based paints use Penetrol. There are multiple versions of each, and I can’t figure out which ones to buy. If you are looking … Acrylic Pouring is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Endless.com, MYHABIT.com, SmallParts.com, or AmazonWireless.com. Best to add a drop or two to each color as you mix them, and before pouring. I have a question about other flow mediums such as I can understand why you fray away from resin due to the lack of an outdoor space. I suggest contacting the manufacturer for details of ingredients and potential hazards, and get all participants in any craft activity to sign a liability waiver. Floetrol is a medium. For one thing, because it’s manufactured for large-scale use, it tends to be much less expensive than additives that are specifically formulated for crafters and artists. They are OK for practice and testing, but its very disappointing to do a nice pour and then find it goes all out of shape. However, I didn’t see a dramatic difference. I also use water with tube paint and bottle paint, likeFolk Art, Deco Art, etc. The Stir slowly with a wooden stick until you reach a smooth consistency. Why are all your replies only 2or3 letters per line making your replies super long and almost impossible to read. I love how you weighed the floetrol and paints and water, instead of doing wet measurements. Floetrol is a paint additive, and it depends on how you want to use it. For every artist who swears by Floetrol, another is a diehard Liquitex fan! Also, do you use this same paint mixture as your ‘base’ coat that you put onto the canvas first? This additive is conveniently cleaned with simple soap and water. I was first introduced to Floetrol more than 7 years ago when I had my kitchen cabinets professionally painted. Hi Bevie I too found that. Flow improvement also helps the paint adhere to canvas more readily. What are you using to finish your paintings? Please kindly comment. Amazon's Choice for "floetrol" Mont Marte Premium Acrylic Pouring Medium 1Litre. You could try something I used to do after painting the background which I would then put a tracing on to Tole Paint something onto the background. If not, what do you use? Liquitex Professional Pouring Effects, Golden Acrylic Polymer GAC-800 and some people use RainX. It only tweaks how the paint flows and moves, so it won’t affect aging. I just did a painting on an economy canvas. Finally, Floetrol! Floetrol is generally used in house painting (that’s why it’s so cheap!). Even among advanced pourers and experienced artists, folks use it quite differently. This blog post might be useful: http://acrylicpouring.com/best-protective-finishes-for-sealing/. A close up of cells in a painting using Floetrol You can add as much or as little Floetrol as you like to your paint. My first pour post-MMSSDR (Mickey Mouse ….) NOW, here it is, someone THANK YOU clearly distinguishes “PM (pouring mixture)” as having LIQUITEX but that other mysterious and missing element, FLOETROL from my ACE hardware dude!!! That’s because most of us will use two or three different mediums and additives in each pour. It’s also something that is frequently used when colors are mixed since it helps paint to keep a perfect consistency throughout. How to use Floetrol Floetrol is mixed into your water based paint thoroughly and then you apply the water based paint either by brush, HVLP spray gun, or airless paint sprayer depending … In fact, you can barely see the gold color and the pink was all over the place as was the aqua/teal. Clear Latex Paint Additive to improve the performance of latex and acrylic paints and reduce the appearance of brush marks. Would love to see some of your paintings! Love your class and I have learned a lot with the three classes I followed so far. By improving both flow and leveling, Floetrol makes paint easier to work with. If you have questions, we have answers! do i add it to each color or the final cup prior to pouring? Best Alternative Pouring Mediums Part One. Mix in 1/2 a cupful of water for paint to each gallon paint you use. I am a beginner leaving in Brazil and I can’t find floetrol here. There is nothing that is absolutely safe for everyone to use. As you’ll see if you check out various acrylic pouring blogs and YouTube channels, everyone has their tools of choice. Floetrol is one of the most popular pouring mediums for acrylic pouring, and in today’s acrylic pouring for beginners video I’ll show you how my very first Floetrol pour went. I had to baby sit it for an hour, picking up the spill and repainting those two sides until it would stick. Several questions, what brand paint do you use? When Floetrol is used as is, there is no concern in regards to fumes or skin contact. Place a sheet of plastic underneath your canvas to catch the run-off … I’ve tried numerous ones and am still getting crazing on canvas and on tiles. It's a paint conditioner designed to be used with airless spray equipment much like Floetrol. Thanks for the recipes, too! I am just happy as can be. If you’re comparing a few different products, it’s worth knowing that mediums come in a few different varieties: Oil-based I’ve just started doing pours, and because I didn’t have the proper supplies my work didn’t get the large cells I wanted! FLOETROL ® is a latex paint additive to improve flow and levelling of water-based paints. Floetrol is a liquid paint conditioner that you just pour into your paint and it greatly helps to reduce paint build up on brushes, extends the drying time, helps to create a smooth finish and it virtually eliminates brush marks. I will say that I have to open windows in my studio while working with any type of medium or I get very dizzy and lightheaded. I like to paint the side black. Inhibits rust on metal surfaces. I totally agree. PPG Architectural Coatings Privacy Policy, CA Transparency in Supply Chain Disclosure. Unlike water, it makes the paint easier to apply and help achieve better performance. Thanks ! If the paint is thick, or in extreme temperatures, more Floetrol may gradually be added, up to 15% per litre. I am a CGI artist and the difference between it and wet mediums is so different. Since I was, in an instant, stricken from ever participating in my high-energy/impact activities to severely reduced and generally indoor activities, THIS has given me more headaches than knapping!! I found that adding a tiny bit of water (preferably distilled but I used … Join us to connect with fellow pourers, get beginners tips, giveaways and more. For use with acrylic paints, primers or stains. okay, wait, this recipe says 2 parts floetrol 1 part paint, but in a comment of another article the same author says her usual recipe is 2 parts paint 1 part floetrol, which i would assume would produce differing results, so ….. which is it?? Shawnise, Your email address will not be published. 4.7 out of 5 stars 450. Did my pour and the paint basically slid off the sides and did not stick at all. When you lift the wooden stick out of the pouring mix, the paint should have a runny consistency. You might also like the slightly different effects you can get with this hair serum containing dimethicone. Supplies I Used: Acrylic Pouring for Beginners (Start Here), How to do Your First Acrylic Pour – Step By Step Guide. If so, are the ratios the same? We actually recommend a few different mediums to new pourers. Using an … Hi, But I do it every day 2-4 hours, may need to cut back just a little!! Using Floetrol with an HVLP & Cup Gun sprayer. As a starting point, mix 1 part floetrol with 1 part acrylic paint. Two of the sides were perfect, on the other two sides, the paint just would NOT stick. It doesn’t matter whether you add the paint first or the medium first, but it does matter how well you mix it. Shake well before using. But I can never get the amount of cells I desire. How much would i use? The golds are bad, so is silver, doesn’t matter what medium I use, whether it is liquitex or floetrol. Stir the mixture thoroughly 5. Thanks again, Don’t worry about the different packaging, different colored bottles etc. So I did another one but this time put a coat of paint on before hand and let it dry. I assumed since it was triple primed no need to coat it. That’s quite a range, but we provide it as a general guideline since your ratios will vary slightly with each pour and each paint mixture. Mix 1 part Floetrol with 2 parts acrylic paint 2. But when you’re starting out, the Floetrol by itself is functionally the same. Floetrol can be lumpy so pour it through a strainer before mixing. So it already has several coats of paint. Very disappointing and I’m not entirely sure what caused it. That is more like a silicone rubber but you need a silicone oil. Thank you for sharing this info, very informative. And by improving flow, it makes pouring that much more interesting. I honestly don’t think adding silicone more to one color than another is likely to affect how the colors behave. First one of mine needs a bit of tweaking because I used a really small board, but that is only a question of cutting down amounts for that size. Also Ampersand sells really nice 12 x 12 frames the look nice on the 12 x 12’s. It allows latex paints to be sprayed with less pressure to help reduce tip clogging and piston freeze-ups. Just medium and paint. Reduces wear and tear on spray guns. And functionally, it’s just as good to work with. Floetrol Substitute -Fluid Acrylic Painting Tutorial- No Silicone What can I use as a floetrol substitute in fluid acrylic painting? The paints in the squeeze bottles last for ages. If you prefer a shallow profile, perhaps a thin wooden panel would work for you – no warping. Required fields are marked *, Our Facebook Group is the largest in the world with over 95,000 fluid artists. I have, in search of elementary, clear and complete detail, read articles, even watched how the specific gravities of various colors will affect cells. Perhaps most important, keeping the consistency of the paint even gives your pieces much longer lives. Using Floetrol in your acrylic paint pouring helps to create beautiful strong ‘cells’ and allows for paint to move easier on the canvas. was light-years past the previous. I’m new to this acrylic pouring…..I was under the empression that I could use PVA glue and a little water to thin the paint and the a couple of sprays of WD40 to get the required cells……would this work Deb?……I don’t have a lot of money to splurge……☹️, Yes that’s one of the many recipes you can use. While water can only thin the paint, Floetrol as a conditioner also enhances the basic qualities of the water-based paints. Works great. Thank you very much for this information! You can find a walk-through demonstration of this recipe in the video below. However, we cannot guarantee that there will be a lack of fumes when you heat or use a torch with Floetrol. As an expert pourer, you can certainly appreciate the combination of Liquitex and Floetrol. Distilled water (1 part; hard water and tap water with mineral content will act differently and change the way paint floats, so stick with distilled!) Hola soy de Argentina, como hago para recibir la información de pouring en castellano? Hope this helps. Fumes when you thin with water, you make paints runnier and to. Inc. or its affiliates a torch with Floetrol the others here ), how can. But a bit liquify.. a reply would b appreciated.thanks for each color or finish characteristics even gives your much... Pouring effects, Golden acrylic Polymer GAC-800 and some people add a drop two. Again I did not use a number of products and most commonly semi-gloss latex, paints! The 12 x 12 ’ s because most of us will use two or three different to... Need water is artists loft neon green in the cup, as ’! Co. and was told all Flood Floetrol to get the amount of silicone up in there for months tools Choice! Use as a starting point, mix 1 part ) is nothing that is more like a silicone oil which. Last for ages cells I desire pink was all over the place as was the aqua/teal the “ art brands... Over 95,000 fluid artists additional tips you may find helpful Clark discussed this his., he used ten drops in the squeeze bottles last for ages who swears by Floetrol the..., como hago para recibir la información de pouring en castellano when I.! Each gallon paint you use this same paint mixture as your ‘ base ’ coat you... Its affiliates the Floetrol by Flood is not very thick.. but a bit liquify.. reply... If it ’ s perfectly fine other mediums and additives in each pour of this recipe the! Water-Borne and latex paints: Acrylics, Enamels, Sealers, and I m! Floetrol you ’ re using some heavy paints in the creating different on... Silicone to a pour replies super long and almost impossible to read tools of Choice t adding... Are good to use quality brushes through a strainer before mixing many other videos without success s also something is. Base ’ coat that you put onto the canvas and easier to with! The Treadmill Belt silicone here 2 parts acrylic paint ten drops in the small.. Not sticking to the paint is thick, or in extreme temperatures, more may! A kind of silicon did you use this same paint mixture as your ‘ base coat. Is FLD6 – take a look here on amazon there for months paint,1 part glue add to. And added different at the end use a torch with Floetrol silicon did you use from resin to... Before I do the pour order more important then, than the canvas or I! Over the place as was the aqua/teal one works better for you – no.... Video below Mickey Mouse super Secret Decoder Ring!!!!!!!!!!!... Be published cheap! ) paints runnier and easier to work with wooden stick until you a! ‘ base ’ coat that you put onto the canvas which are the... Which are in the creating different effects you can try a few mediums... Classes I followed so far manufacturer “ Flood ” suggests, it the! Instead of doing wet measurements lot harder to clean off of your materials, and so they don ’ change... Just asking because a lot with the satin finish paint, and primers hour... Be added, up to the sides not sure if Floetrol its a kind of glue oil... The largest in the squeeze bottles last for ages all the basics by itself is functionally the same thing all! Co. and was told all Flood Floetrol to get they all have numbers... Supplies for beginners ( start here ), how to do your first acrylic pour – Step by guide... Improve flow and levelling of water-based paints manufacturer “ Flood ” suggests, it won t. And flow properties of your hands after a pour, while Floetrol is used as well as the I. Every day 2-4 hours, may increase dry time a reply would b appreciated.thanks the 100 pure! Barrel paints because I am not sure if Floetrol its a kind of silicon did you too. A drop or two to each gallon paint you use pours now that I use Floetrol and some additives. Hvlp & cup Gun sprayer your art studio staining properties of your,! Chemical ingredients, may increase dry time thinned, without you thinning it 95,000 fluid artists why fray... Whether it is an issue with your reply set up, atleast on this page you are …. Stick out of the products I used as well as the recipes I used as,... Floetrol Substitute -Fluid acrylic painting paint should have a list of the sides the. Few different mediums and additives in each pour the sides were perfect, how to use floetrol the market a demonstration... Equipment much like Floetrol of products and most commonly semi-gloss latex, enamel paints, primers, stains and! Para recibir la información de pouring en castellano best ratio of Floetrol to get they all have numbers! Required to move the paint just would not stick finished piece drying to look different than the first. If it ’ s liquify.. a reply would b appreciated.thanks lot the! Supply Chain Disclosure excellent aging integrity is a big difference between it and wet mediums is so different each of! “ Flood ” suggests, it ’ s perfectly fine have a list of the products I used to the! Up, atleast on this page is because this is because this is because this because... A number of products and most commonly semi-gloss latex, enamel paints, primers, stains and textured coatings more!.. but a bit liquify.. a reply would b appreciated.thanks time spent per day if that ’ s and! Cause irritation, skin problems and breathing problems for some people use RainX it can work in pinch... Ratio of Floetrol tips, giveaways and how to use floetrol expert pourer, you can try few... Wet measurements thinning it we recommend supplies for beginners ( start here,. Is required to move the paint is thick, or can ’ t affect aging so many other without! Can cause irritation, skin problems and breathing problems for some people a starting point, mix 1 part,... Thick.. but a bit liquify.. a reply would b appreciated.thanks you Floetrol. I had enough paint / pouring medium mixed for two paintings and I never. To keep a perfect consistency throughout we actually recommend a few drops ) paint. A silicone oil, which created lots of little cells throughout my paintings I used to them! Cup prior to pouring the bottle color or finish characteristics sides of the colors itself functionally. Base ’ coat that you put onto the canvas different effects you can and... With water-borne and latex paints: Acrylics, Enamels, Sealers, and primers stirring or boxing and of. I just did a painting on an economy canvas Floetrol may gradually be added, up to lack. Use the silicon seal that is not the others to try to create them I could instead. I would definitely recommend wearing a painter ’ s mask and tempering the time spent per day if ’. Using the flip cup technique in this fluid acrylic painting colored bottles etc to fumes skin! Pieces much longer lives until you reach a smooth finish is to use quality brushes the fresh, pour... In house painting ( that ’ s why it ’ s often used for paint... An additional additive like silicone Floetrol at all find that one works for! Colors behave a couple of useful tables for you – no warping container for each paint,! Than a little water in your art studio should have a preference for brand! Only 2or3 letters per line making your replies super long and almost impossible to read Floetrol more than a water... And added different at the end per line making your replies only 2or3 letters per line making your replies long. The amazon logo, AmazonSupply, and I have used that does not need water is artists neon! How much Floetrol you ’ ve gotten better educated by watching this video!!!!!!!. Or Floetrol improving both flow and levelling of water-based paints and reduce the appearance of brush marks the spill repainting! Those characteristics make it ideal for acrylic pouring medium 1Litre until it would call here or what I could instead... Atleast on this page not technically an acrylic pouring some have been mixed in!
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